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Author
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Topic: Business question: "by stipulation" v. "inadmissible"
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Dan Mangan
Member
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posted 08-23-2006 11:45 AM
 
I'm a new guy (Backster '04) on the block at the PolygraphPlace examiners' forum, although I have been an ardent read-only observer for the past two years. I've learned a lot thanks to this forum and even got a chance to meet a few of the players at the last AAPP convention in Maine. Good folks.I have a question that is perhaps best directed at private examiners with experience practicing both in states where polygraph evidence is allowed in court "by stipulation" and in states where polygraph evidence is inadmissible. Here's the question: From a private-practice standpoint,
is there more action (business)to be had from lawyers in "by stipulation" states, or are stipulated tests so rare that it really doen't matter in which type of state one is practicing? For my purposes, PCSOT is not part of this equation. Any light you can shed on this, or on similar factors related to private practice that a newcomer would find valuable, would be most appreciated. Thanks,
Dan IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 08-24-2006 07:58 AM
Hi Dan. It's good to see you've finally jumped in. I don't know the answer to your question, but I'll add this. We use polygraph all the time to determine who gets charged or whose charges get dropped. No deals are made in advance, so stipulation is never mentioned. I've yet to find a person DI and not seen a plea, nor have I had an NDI and not seen the case dropped or not charged at all. From what I've heard, the same happens with most cases done by stipulation of the parties. Why agree to accept polygraph results and then fight against them in court? The results are the results, and I would expect the stipulating parties to proceed with their case using the results to decide how to end the case without a court hearing. I don't suspect there would be any difference, but if there is I'd be interested in hearing the whys and wheres too. IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-27-2006 01:44 PM
Welcome man! As a private examiner in a state that allows stipulated testing district by district (up to the individual judges), I can tell you that the money is in defense attorney risk assessment. The defense attorney pays you to see how much vigor he/she should/will committ to fighting charges on behalf of the defedant. Only savy attornies who know how manipulative sex offenders can be have the knowledge that polygraphing sex offenders is the current best risk assessment. Of course the tests are confidential and there are no confessions---unless the examinee is a moron. Stipulated tests however (vs. risk assess.) will insure that you will be thouroughly consumed with testifying, being undressed in court, and having your time being bogged down in general. One thing I've encountered is that some of the more seedy attornies will skate/hint around the notion that you will be paid more money ($2000)if your examinee "passes" his/her test. Defense Attornies are always looking for polygraph whores---and unfortunately, if you fail(DI) those types of Attorney teams, they will not come back for more business ----!*$% 'em, you know? Usually you will be offered a crooked deal like that by a paralawyer (counsel's assistant.) I would get to know ALL of the area law enforcement examiners and show them your work. Show them that you are a trustworthy examiner and in the event of a stip test, you and the other examiners will be running very similar types of tests. For example in my area, I had a relationship with an examiner that would allow us to have mutual confidence in the types of tests we ran. You want to be able to tell your client (the attorney) that if the examinee fails your test, than he will also fail Sgt Smith's test. Know this though----what do get when you put 2 examiners in a room together?---answer: An argument IP: Logged |
jrwygant
Member
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posted 08-27-2006 10:22 PM
In my state we had stipulated tests and then we didn't, due to a change in climate at the State Supreme Court. I've worked under both conditions. It made no difference in volume of business. There's certainly no clear business advantage to doing stipulated tests and having to find time in your schedule for trials. Often they forget to let you know about the trial until a few days before, and then the proceedings are frequently pleaded or set over, leaving you with a hole. It can also sometimes mean that you end up testifying contrary to an examiner produced by the opposition, which tends to be a loser for the profession, not to mention one or both of the examiners.Most defense attorneys look at polygraph as a potential tool. If the client passes and the test withstands the scrutiny of review by a police examiner, the DA will probably dismiss or reduce. If the client flunks, his attorney is likely to use the test results to sell a plea agreement to the client ("buddy, we got nothing left..."). If your reputation as a private examiner is good, meaning that the police examiners and prosecutors respect you, then you're valuable to defense attorneys. They don't want an unknown or someone whose test results won't persuade. Getting that kind of reputation can take time, but who said that being self-employed would be easy. IP: Logged |
Dan Mangan
Member
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posted 08-28-2006 05:29 PM
Barry, Stat, Jim... Thanks a million for your thoughtful replies. This is exactly the kind of advice and insight that I seek. It's pretty tough sledding for a new examiner in private practice -- at least in my neck of the woods (New England) -- so your observations are most appreciated.Re: polygraph whores
I strive to conduct the most ethical and objective exams possible. (Is there any other way?) I haven't had any suggestions from defense attys (or their minions) to steer a test in a certain direction, but I'm amazed some examiners would do this. Besides, wouldn't an independent quality review expose their chicanery? Must be the overwhelming influence of the Almighty Buck... Since starting my practice I've taken the vow of poverty, but I sleep very well at night. Dan IP: Logged |
J.B. McCloughan
Administrator
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posted 08-28-2006 09:40 PM
Good for you Dan and good luck with your venture.As a side note, I looked at your website and you might want to change the keywords text so that it is the same color as your background. Keywords are usually hidden in the webpage to aid it in search engines. IP: Logged | |
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